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Post by Nentou Doujin on Dec 11, 2005 22:06:19 GMT -5
This is to discuss the final fight between Kazuma and Ryuhou. We all Know Kazuma won but do you all think it's right? Anyone think Ryuhou should have won? Personally I think it was perfect. Kazuma won fair and square and the fight itself was amazing! Also I've been wondering if maybe Cougar's final form could stand a chance against Kazuma or Ryuhou final forms. What do you think?
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Post by orochimaruchan on Dec 11, 2005 22:43:26 GMT -5
I still like to think that it's still a tie at the end since Kazuma winning at the end would justify the idea that he's the main character, when he and Ryuho are both the center of focus, you can't really say which one is right or wrong in winning because that would mean that there was an underlying reason behind their fight, like their ideals, but there really wasn't, it was just to see who was stronger or who could last longer, and as for Cougar, I stand by the idea that you can't beat what you can't hit, if Cougar's faster than both Kazuma and Ryuho then they would have to use technique to beat him since raw strength would never do, but that would still only work if they were fast enough or if Cougar's stupid enough to fall for it......
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Post by Asuka Was Here on Dec 12, 2005 6:11:11 GMT -5
Actually, some people would argue that Ryuhou won. It wasn't very clear; all they really showed was a hand reaching up, which we presume to be the hand of the first to rise - that is, the winner. It never tells you who the hand belongs to.
However, that said, from the way the hand moved and curled itself into a fist, I'm almost positive that it is Kazuma's. Ryuhou doesn't run around making fists like that ^.^' I'm just pointing out that it could be contested...
I've already established some of my views on the fight in another thread, so I'm not going to restate it here. Too early in the morning -.- *yawns*
However, I would have to say that at the point in the series where the fight occurs, Cougar wouldn't stand a chance against Kazuma or Ryuhou - for one, he's dying, which generally would impede his ability to fight well. But also, he used up most of the remainder of his Alter power saving Mimori and Kanami and the Elian!Clones (by the way, what do you think ever happens to Elians 3 and 4??).
Ignoring all that, I think Kazuma or RYuhou's final forms would still give Cougar a run for his money even before the Mujou incident. Yes, I know he totally pwned them when there weren't any final forms to go around, But Kazu and Ryu gain a lot in speed in their third forms ('specially Ryuhou, with his zippy wannabe firefly movements), and Kazuma, especially, grew up with Cougar and by now would have probably figured out at least some of his movements o.0
However, that's just how I see it. Circumstances and timing really prevent us from ever finding out, and theorizing doesn't do much if it won't ever occur...
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Post by orochimaruchan on Dec 13, 2005 6:52:07 GMT -5
Thinking about how many factors you'd have to take into consideration about Cougar fighting either Kazuma or Ryuho, it'd be really hard to really see who might win, but in assuming Cougar isn't on death's doorstep and is at least in decent health, I would think in the end Kazuma would probably come out on top just because I believe a battle between them would come down to whose mental state is better, Kazuma has something worth fighting for to keep him going, Cougar doesn't really have that, and I don't think Ryuho would really fight Cougar to the extent Kazuma would
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Post by Nentou Doujin on Dec 14, 2005 17:24:07 GMT -5
Are you kidding! Theorizing fictional battles between fictional characters is what I'm best at! My theory is that Kazuma and Ryuhou could win against Cougar but just barely. The reason Kazuma would win is because even though he couldn't hit Cougar, Cougar wouldn't be able to do much damage because Kazuma has a high defense in his third form. It would come down to both putting up their strongest attacks against each other and I'm pretty sure Kazuma is stronger. Ryuhou's fast but I still think Cougar is faster. And Ryuhou's armor doesn't seem to have as high defense as Kazuma's so Cougar could do a lot of damage in a short amount of time. But he has those sword things and I'm sure he would eventually connect. Couagr couldn't survive many slashes so I guess Ryuhou would win but it could go either way.
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Post by Vulpes on Dec 17, 2005 22:12:46 GMT -5
I think neither won, and they both killed each other. The hand that reached up only did so because it was the final nerve spasm of a corpse. +^.^+
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Post by Asuka Was Here on Dec 18, 2005 13:05:41 GMT -5
Are you kidding! Theorizing fictional battles between fictional characters is what I'm best at! My theory is that Kazuma and Ryuhou could win against Cougar but just barely. The reason Kazuma would win is because even though he couldn't hit Cougar, Cougar wouldn't be able to do much damage because Kazuma has a high defense in his third form. It would come down to both putting up their strongest attacks against each other and I'm pretty sure Kazuma is stronger. Ryuhou's fast but I still think Cougar is faster. And Ryuhou's armor doesn't seem to have as high defense as Kazuma's so Cougar could do a lot of damage in a short amount of time. But he has those sword things and I'm sure he would eventually connect. Couagr couldn't survive many slashes so I guess Ryuhou would win but it could go either way. Interesting theories. I suppose you have a point with Ryuhou, it could really go either way. Kazuma still pwns all, though. Simply because he's Kazuma and he's hot and therefore he should always win. I think neither won, and they both killed each other. The hand that reached up only did so because it was the final nerve spasm of a corpse. +^.^+ Lovely theory, Redheaded Being. Remind me to kill you for it later. Especially since they show later scenes in which they're both very much alive. |
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Post by orochimaruchan on Dec 18, 2005 22:21:18 GMT -5
No matter what, if you look at the probability of their fights in a logical way, any of it is possible, but looking at in anime cliche terms, Kazuma would indeed most likely pwn all, even I think he can pwn all, and I'm not even a Kazuma fan. Kazuma usually falls into that category of anime main characters with undying wills to succeed in any fight they are in, and they never lose a fight, no matter how badly the odds are stacked against them.
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Post by Vulpes on Dec 19, 2005 0:54:55 GMT -5
You couldn't possibly kill me! I AM IMMORTAL! ...They were re-animaed corpses. Either that or it was in Soul Society!  |
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Post by Nentou Doujin on Dec 21, 2005 15:38:00 GMT -5
heh Kazuma wishes. I'd like to see him try to fight Youzen with the Rikukonhon. He would die within seconds. And not just him but a bunch of people from Houshin could easily beat the best of s-Cry-ed.
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Post by Asuka Was Here on Dec 21, 2005 17:46:43 GMT -5
Well, if were getting into the category of non-Scryed characters fighting Kazuma, I'm sure we could find plenty to totally pwn him. I don't think that was orochimaruchan's point, though...
And going along that theme, I don't think they were in Soul Society, Redheaded Being. There were no shinigami running around. Unless SS looks suspiciously identical to the Lost Ground, which I highly doubt. There were no little huts and people in kimono running aaround, either. Just Kanami and Kazuma and Ryuhou. And they weren't reanimated, either o.0
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Post by orochimaruchan on Dec 22, 2005 1:20:39 GMT -5
I was only talking about Kazuma pwning anybody in Scryed, stick him in most other anime and yeah, he'll get beat, sticking him in Houshin Engi is going a bit too far since the characters in it are on a level that's quite a bit higher than he is, even I have Original Characters that could completely pwn Kazuma or just about anybody else for that matter, but that's just my stuff and I'd rather not think about cross-overs, because cross-overs suck.
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Post by Vulpes on Dec 22, 2005 1:38:03 GMT -5
Not all parts of Soul Society have little huts and people in kimonos running around, you know. I'm sure there are places that are barren and would look enough like the Lost Ground to be mistaken for it. Shinigami aren't everywhere, either, you know.
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Post by Asuka Was Here on Dec 22, 2005 21:10:06 GMT -5
Not all parts of Soul Society have little huts and people in kimonos running around, you know. I'm sure there are places that are barren and would look enough like the Lost Ground to be mistaken for it. Shinigami aren't everywhere, either, you know. Still irrelevant, because they didn't die |
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Post by Vulpes on Dec 25, 2005 2:49:13 GMT -5
Nope, they both died. They killed each other, ended up in the same place in Soul Society, and kept right on fighting without realizing they'd died.
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Post by Nentou Doujin on Dec 28, 2005 17:38:44 GMT -5
I just realized how horrible Kazuma and Ryuhou look in the Epilogue. Kazuma's arm looks already dead and just kinda hanging and he's go that Tenka style scar across his nose. And Ryuhou's not much better.
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Post by orochimaruchan on Dec 28, 2005 19:34:35 GMT -5
Well they did keep using their alters, and just like Cougar said, it'll end up with them being dead eventually. Although, can you imagine how beat up Cougar's legs must of looked when he died.
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Post by Asuka Was Here on Dec 28, 2005 22:49:56 GMT -5
*doesn't even want to think about how hurt Cougar was* Poor guy. He's got horrible posture because of all his injuries.
But yeah, Kazuma and Ryuhou are probably going to die early deaths, too. *cries for Kazu-kun* And it doesn't help that they keep beating the living daylights out of each other -.-' That last fight was pretty gruesome, with all the headbutting and bone cracking and bloody mangling of each other.
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Post by Nentou Doujin on Dec 29, 2005 16:10:21 GMT -5
I believe it did show the back of Cougar's leg when he was talking to those kids and it was pretty bad. I'm sure I heard a couple of ribs go during Kazuma and Ryuhou's fight. And I'm also sure their skulls must be cracked open.
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Post by Asuka Was Here on Dec 29, 2005 19:49:54 GMT -5
I dunno about their skulls (they probably wouldn't have lived if they were badly cracked), but they probably both ended up with concussions. You're right about the ribs, though, and I wouldn't doubt they cracked, sprained, tore, and otherwise injured a few limbs and joints. I also bet someone lost at least one tooth, probably more. It was pretty bloody and violent.
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